Ulster Scots and Irish 'Nots'

'ULSTER' SCOT: NOT 'Prod' Scot or 'Unionist' Scot or 'Bits of Northern Ireland' Scot

This is a pruned version of an earlier gargantuan rant:    http://amgobsmacked.blogspot.com.au/2013/07/ulster-scot-or-simply-ulster-protestant.html

It did go on a bit (sorry).

So, without further ado

Cultural Hijacking

"Give me your songs, your instruments, your language and your fleg"

Recently I've been a tad foamy-mouthed with regards to the politicisation of the Irish language in Northern Ireland.

I've been huffing and puffing about it on LAD, Slugger O'Toole and Dr Jude Collins' website:

http://loyalistsagainstdemocracy.blogspot.com.au/2014/04/what-nationalism-doesnt-get-or-maybe.html

http://sluggerotoole.com/2014/04/18/an-la-dearg-was-an-expression-of-both-a-growing-sense-of-anger/

http://www.judecollins.com/2014/04/dearg-le-fearg-cliste-whale/

(Respectively)

Then NI21 came in with their Irish language election billboard posters.

A welcome move

Great.

Then someone mentioned "what about Ulster Scots?!"

What about it indeed?

Ulster Scots; only for Ulster Prods?

Ulster Scot?

With regards to Ulster-Scots, I consider it equally (if not more so) politicised.

Indeed, some politicans give the impression that it's a unionist only club.

This may be unfair perhaps, but perceptions matter in Northern Ireland.

And the Ulster Scots agency don't seem to care much for the Gaelic aspect of Scottish culture (language or games; too similar to 'themuns' perhaps?)

(I have emailed them to ask them. Still waiting for a reply....)

Ulster Prod.

Removing the undesirable elements of Gaelic culture from a cultural preservation movement must take an impressive amount of effort?

The word 'Scot' actually means 'Gael' (it comes from the Latin term for Gaelic raiders).









Yet Gaelic elements of Scottish culture are surgically removed from the potential range of delights that could be offered (apart from Highland dancing, though presumably it's sufficiently removed from the modern forms of Irish dancing, itself given a nationalistic makeover a century ago by a group similarly given to cultural control, the Gaelic League).



Not only that, but the Ulster Scots Agency is not above working with groups with a less than squeaky clean image in the furtherance of such an engineered culture. Observe:

http://www.ulsterscotsagency.com/

Piping & Fiddling (23/07/14, 7pm, High Street, Ballymoney if you're interested)

From the outset, not so bad.

A flute band hosting a fiddler and a piper (albiet a band that seemingly wants independence for Northern Ireland?)

In fact, I think it's pretty cool actually.

Flute bands are quite important to many young Protestants in NI.

If they give something the 'thumbs up' then it can have a sycophantic ripple effect, a validation that something is 'cool'.

So good, piping and fiddling may have just got the thumbs up.

However:

Dunaghy FB fb

William Campbell, the focal point of their fb page was a member of the UDA.

Now, as much as Dunaghy might be helping out on the cool factor of fiddles and pipes it is nonetheless difficult to see why they should escape criticism for their hero worship of a paramilitary member.

The Dungiven GAA club named after INLA man Kevin Lynch comes in for (deservedly so, in my opinion) criticism for their use of his name.

The same logic applies to Dunaghy FB.

By extension this reflects badly on the Ulster Scots Agency and by further extension damages the image of the Ulster Scots culture.

Is it really that 'inclusive'?

The Hamely Tongue

The nationalist areas of rural Antrim would have a mighty claim to the use of Ulster Scots as a language.

Many would also have a strong claim to Scottish ancestry, for example, the following Scottish derived names are common throughout the nationalist communities of rural Antrim:

McDonnell, McCabe, McCauley, McSheely, McSween, McClain, McCrory and McDowell to name a few.

Yet ('official') Ulster Scots culture has little influence in these areas.

True, I'm sure they're happy enough concentrating solely on Irish culture.

Fair enough.

That's no reason to make the idea unpalatable to people of a nationalist background though, is it?

I personally think a culture that could claim the aspects of Ulster Scots, Irish Gaelic AND Scottish Gaelic cultures would be a mighty culture indeed.

Why have just either Irish or Scottish dancing when you could have both (and a hybrid to boot?).

Why stick to just Scots, Sligo or Slieve Luchra versions of fiddling when we could blend them? (Though I'm sure many do).

Surely GAA clubs could benefit from the addition of Camanachd/Shinty?

Is there not room for Scottish Gaelic and Antrim Gaelic?
They overlap quite a bit (identically in some cases e.g. Arran Gaelic) and it could help to take the political sting out of Gaelic.

But like most things in NI, it's a case of 'this is for themuns and this is for oursuns...'


At the moment it appears to be like some sort of cultural carve up, with cultural aspects swapped like Trump cards.

THE 'WHA'S LIKE US?!' TABLE OF CULTURAL COMPARISON 

                                             Themuns                Ulster Scots             Proper Scots

• Gaelic Languages       Yes                            Nae*                        Yes
• 
  
• Bodhrans                     Yes                           Rarely*                      Yes
• 
  
• Fiddles                          Yes                            Yes**                       Yes
• 
  
• Gaelic Sports                Yes                         Nae*             Yes (Shinty)
• 
  
• Bagpipes                No (Only in America)   Yes                         Yes
• 
  
• Uilleann Pipes              Yes                            Nae*                      Yes
• 
  
• Lambeg Drums           No*                          Yes                          No
• 
  
• Gaelic Legends            Yes                          *No ***                   Yes
• 
  
• Scots language            No****                       Yes                           Yes

* They did, once upon a time
** They do, but only if it's deemed different enough from themuns (or maybe vice versa?)
*** Apart from the Red Hand of Ulster and Cuchulainn
**** They do in rural Antrim, they just don't bang on about it

Wha's Like Us: Well, according to the table, 'themuns' are....

So, on one hand, we have the Scots who are a mix of Picts, Britons, Gaels, Angles, Norse, and Anglo-Normans.

On the above table, they match up seven times out of a possible nine with Irish culture (eight if you include reluctant Hamely Tongue speakers).

Modern Irish society (ignoring the recent immigration for the sake of argument) owes its history to Gaels, Norse, Scots and Anglo Normans.

Then we compare them to the the 'hybrid' group who are logically descended from ALL of the above groups and have shared the cultural wealth of both groups.

Out of a possible nine they overlap with 'themuns' ONCE. (Again, nationalist Hamely Tongue speakers notwithstanding)

That number would increase to EIGHT times had this (hastily improvised and possibly biased) table been about a century ago.

That is to say, before the cultural carve-up

It compares to the Scottish column a little bit more favourably, a whopping three out of nine but again, wind back the clocks a century and it would be nine out of nine.

So it seems that Ulster-Scots culture serves as a curious wall between two very similar cultures.

How very Northern Irish.

Guiding a Culture

Before anyone thinks I'm on some sort of social engineering rampage, let us just remember that Irish, Ulster-Scots and Scottish cultures have went through various face lifts before:

Irish - After partition folk music and dancing both received a good lesson on how to be 'more Irish' thanks to the Gaelic League and the nationalism of the Free State

Scottish - The modern kilt owes its current look to a number of people, including Sir Walter Scott, an English sawmill owner and two Polish lads who wanted to cash in on a Royal visit to Edinburgh.

Ulster Scots - Once upon a time it was just a dialect that people in north east Ireland spoke. Now it appears to be a tribe of its own that is quite particular about membership.


Don't get me wrong, some aspects of this Ulster Scots revival are fantastic.
It's brought folk music back to some Protestant communities and helped to redress the post-partition imbalance regarding the perception of folk music as something for 'themuns'.

My fear is though that it will galvanise itself as a Gaelic-free tribe.

Shinty, Scottish & Antrim Gaelic, dancing, Gallowglass heritage and much more besides, they're all up for grabs and 'Ulster's' culture could stand to benefit greatly.

And I do mean ULSTER; Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan should be invited to join the party too.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why not just have it all?

(Joking about Jedward, just wanted to see if you were still paying attention)

Ireland, the land of contrasts....

A lot of my mouthin' sessions are based on perception as in why something, regardless of how trivial or seemingly inoffensive it may appear can actually carry great weight in the currency of 'getting it up themuns'.

What happens if you remove the 'know' from this perception and stumble across some of Ireland's historical 'tiffs' with sheer naked ignorance?
Well, to the blissfully happy tourist Ireland appears as crazy as they have been led to believe.

A few examples spring to mind:

The (Anglo & Cambro & Hiberno) Normans
A bunch of Scandinavian derived chaps with the goal of carving out estates, wealth and power with the aid of their fighting skills. Known to have 'went native' very quickly and soon became troublesome to their own political masters.

Verdict in the eyes of the Irish:

Normans: Bastards

Foreign invaders responsible for centuries of woe and oppression (even though the were only in Ireland for 40 years before they rebelled against 'Britain'. The Anglo/Hiberno-Norman habit of rebelling popped up time and time again; they were instrumental in the wars against Henry VIII and his heiress Elizabeth I)









VS

The Vikings

A bunch of Scandinavian chaps with a goal of carving out estates, wealth and power (not to mention a fair whack of rape, pillage and slave-taking) with the aid of their fighting skills.
Known to have went native very quickly.
 Established slave ports in Ireland that were some of Europe's largest.
Their power was crushed by the aforementioned Normans.
Or if you believe the common version they were defeated by Brian Boru.
Incidentally, half of the 'Viking' army that he fought against were Irishmen...

Verdict in the eyes of the Irish?

The Vikings: A great bunch of lads

Celebrated every year in Dublin by dressing up in helmets with horns on them as well as building a big Viking longship

To the outsider both influenced Ireland greatly, sometimes for the worse (war, rape and pillage for the vikings and war with the Normans) and sometimes for the better: Art, overseas trade and in the case of the Normans, well, if you're a devout Catholic you can't deny they 'Romanised' Ireland a bit.





To make the whole Norman/Gael thing all the more confusing check this out (it confuses the Dickens out of me so if you've noticed any mistakes please let me know):

The Battle of Connor, Co Antrim

On one side we have the Bruces (or De Brus), the Scottish Royal family at the time.
French speaking nobles with Gaelic heritage who ruled over Gaels and Anglos alike.
They were teamed up with their Irish allies (also French speaking nobles and Gaels).

vs

'The English', lead by Richard Og De Burgh, an Irish-Norman noble who ruled over north coast Gaels and Anglos.
He was also the father in law of Robert the Bruce.
Because he was a Norman.
They were all part of the same big league.
Being a French speaking noble mattered more than being a Scot, an Irishman or an Englishman.
There were greater forces at play back then.

So one group of Gaelic-Normans leads a group of Gaels to do battle with another group of Gaelic-Normans and their Gaels and what is our summary of said battle?

That the 'Scottish' beat the 'English' in a battle in Ireland.

Fast forward a few months and 'the English' defeat 'the Scottish' near Newry.

Perfect summary if you're Mel Gibson, not if you're committed to destroying corruptible mythology

Nothing is ever that simple.

"Scottish on the left, English on the right, no, hang on, I mean...."

Flegs:

Ulster Flag/Banner

A fleg

A mixture of Irish and Norman influences (bar the star and the crown).







The St George's Cross is said to be of Norman-Crusader origin, one version has it that a Crusader found a white shield with a bloody cross upon it and adopted it.




Ulster Provincial Flag:

Themuns' fleg

A mixture of Irish and Norman influences (it comes from the De Burgh family crest, they settled in the north and bequeathed Ireland with the surname Burke)








The De Burgh Cross is said to be of Norman-Crusader origin, one version has it that a crusader found a golden shield with a bloody cross upon it and adopted it...





Irish reaction to either flag:

Both sides resent the other flag on account of it being used by 'themuns'. Ho hum...



Gaelic culture

A bizarre state of affairs:
The extreme end of one side over-eggs the pudding in its pursuit of de-anglicisation refuting all 'British' influences (in an era of Anglo-American cultural dominance).
Gaelic culture is seen as the year zero before foreign invaders arrived and eradicated it (despite the enthusiasm that many invaders showed with regards to 'going Gaelic' e.g. the Vikings and the Normans. Even many Ascendancy types got involved).

The extreme of the other side deniy their Gaelic heritage despite sharing a common (or similar) ancestry with 'themuns'.

For a quick example, let's play a game called 'unionist or IRA man':

Donaldson vs Donaldson, McGuinness vs Magennis, Adams vs Adams, Kelly vs Kelly, McIntyre vs McIntyre.... You get the picture...


The unionist side goes to extreme lengths to smother all Gaelic symptoms.
 Despite the enthusiasm for some of their number to embrace their Ulster-Scots heritage (more Scots than Ulster it would appear) one can't help but chortle at the notion of the word 'Scot' being a Latin word for Gael e.g. Brian Boru was proclaimed 'Emperor of the Irish' or in Latin 'Imperator SCOTtorum'.

Brian Boru:
King of the Scots. I mean Irish.
I mean Scots. Hang on....

But of course, the northern Protestants can't be Gaels, not even our confused Frenchman could deny this with the evidence at hand...



Some Ulster-Scots herald back to an age when parts of Scotland and Ulster were united as one in the Kingdom of Dalriada.
 The horrible inconvenience of this being Gaelic was the language of both parts.
Something that the over zealous Ulster-Scots glaze over.

WHAT?!!!
Ulster-Scots are Gaelic too?!!!!
NOOOOOO!!!!!!

Likewise, the eradication of the native language (a form of high Welsh or 'British' if you will) of northern Alba (Britain) at the hands of the Dalriadan Scots/Irish is never mentioned by Irish nationalists, apparently invading and eradicating native culture is a one way street with the Irish always on the receiving end.

Picts/Northern British Celts:
Invaded, language wiped out but NOT oppressed?

But of course, unlike our unsuspecting Frenchman, we do have perspective in that we know why we hate the things that in reality are part of us.

 Some dickhead from 'the other side' has ruined it for us.

From flags, to language, to songs, to symbols, all have been misappropriated to the point that there is seemingly little middle-ground between people who are standing cheek-by-jowl.

Unfortunately not 'shoulder-to-shoulder', what a day that would be.

Foreigners, Lundys and the Irish Language

Jamie Bryson ‏@JamieBrysonCPNI
23 Dec

Now we hear that draft 4 includes promotion of Irish (foreign language) Will it also promote polish, Chinese etc?

Once again Jamie Bryson has single-handedly made me reach for my wee laptop and vent my digital spleen.

Although, it won't be a lecture, rather I'm just going to present a few nuggets of history that highlight the Protestant history with Gaelic (I say Gaelic over Irish as the topic leaps from Ireland to Scotland so Gaelic is an umbrella term in this instance).

NOTE: A lot of the leg work here is borrowed from a few friends of mine who are putting together a book that will have them all hung from Samson and Goliath for their defiance of 'the norm';
 Their book will highlight the lesser-popular facts of Northern Irish history at the expense of unionists, republicans, nationalists, Royalists, the army, the Catholic church, the Orange Order, the Vatican, the Apprentice Boys and everyone else.
Watch this space folks...

Anybody who wants the full monty of the Irish-Protestant Gaelic relationship could do worse than to read these two eye-opening gems:

http://www.ultach.dsl.pipex.com/ForLearners/A%20history%20of%20Protestant%20Irish%20speakers.pdf

Or this:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Towards-Inclusion-Protestants-Irish-Language/dp/0856408441

(though, help a local business out and order it from No Alibis in Belfast, http://www.noalibis.com/ )


Anyway, it's not a lecture, just a presentation of historical snippets. Make up your own mind.



First of all though, why would Jamie regard it as a 'foreign language'?

Well it's not the first time I've heard this dismissal from unionists; local purveyor of fire & brimstone and gospel music star, Rev William McCrea fobbed the language off in similar terms in a Magherafelt council meeting.

(NOTE: McCrea - derives from an ancient Gaelic male given name "MacRaith", son of grace, prosperity, or favour, from the Celtic "rat", luck, fortune. This name, inscribed as "Maqi Rati" on an ogham stone found at Keenrath, in the Irish county of Cork, may have been introduced into Scotland as early as the 5th Century A.D., when the Gaelic language was brought from Ireland.)

Also, his DUP colleague Edwin Poots told Sluggerotoole's David McCann that his greatest achievement was 'burying the Irish language act' as he believes that there is precious little need for it outside of republican circles.

So, how do men, some of Gaelic descent, come to regard an ancient language of this land as 'foreign'?

Well, invariably it comes from hostility to the language.

A hostility that I used to share.

And many others I might add.

This might sound strange coming from someone who would dearly love to see a Gaelic revival across Ireland, Scotland and the Isle of Man, but, it's true.

I only saw Gaelic in a different light when I lived amongst Gaels in Scotland (most Gaels in Scotland are Free Presbyterian. Go figure).

Before that, the only time I ever saw anything in Irish/Gaelic was if I came across a Sinn Fein leaflet, IRA propaganda or something republican.

In short, SF & the IRA's use of Irish made it repellent to me.

"Politicising the Irish language? Not us..."

I'd never heard of Protestant Irish speakers.

I assumed that they'd never existed.

In that respect, I suppose it was kind of 'foreign' as in it had NOTHING to do with me and my 'folk'.

Scotland changed all that.

And before you reach for the old dead end arguments of "well, republicans use shoes, so are you against them too?" please consider the following before you make an eejit of yourself and voice such an argument;

Until (relatively) recently, both Rangers and Celtic had the same sponsors.

For decades before hand they did not.

Why the change?

 Because those clever mind doctors and marketers realised that negative association was very powerful, more people were put off the services of CR Smith and McEwans lager than were attracted to them.

In effect, they discovered the part of the brain that brands something as 'themuns'.

So, now a sponsor must sponsor both teams rather than risk a boycott from the team's rivals. (Though Celtic went solo again, if it was a good move for Magners remains to be seen)

Anyhoo, it demonstrates the power of negative association and the republican 'hijacking' of Gaelic really should not be discounted.
 At all.
In fact a song and dance should be made about it.

Anyway, since I've managed to remove the republican contamination from my impression of the Gaelic languages and started to (slovenly) study Scottish Gaelic I've stumbled across some eyebrow-raisers.

Without further ado, some things to ponder:

Edward Carson: Spoke 'Provo speak'

* Edward Carson, co-founder of the UVF, father of Northern Ireland and uber-Brit was a speaker of Irish

* It is said that every outfit in the Ulster 36th had at least one Gaelic speaker

* There is a tale of soldiers of the Ulster 36th marching past men from a Munster regiment and besting the Munster men in 'slagging session' in Gaelic.

* The 1911 census showed that nearly a fifth of the Shankill's Protestant population spoke Gaelic (as many as the Falls area)
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/census-1911-belfasts-shankill-had-as-many-irish-speakers-as-falls-28733198.html

* Some academics estimate that at least half of the original planter Presbyterian population were Gaelic speakers

* In some areas English planters learnt Gaelic to avoid being disadvantaged in markets

* In the 19th century Belfast was the academic capital of Irish learning

* In 1828 the Ulster Gaelic Society was established by Lord Downshire (powerful Protestant landlord and member of the ruling class)

* Contrary to popular belief, the gentry and landlord class were not fervently opposed to the language. On the contrary, when it finally dawned on them that their English counterparts saw them as 'Irish' many of them embraced this heritage and commissioned Irish books, murals and mosaics

Mosaic in a former  (Protestant) stately home in Ballymena

* An oft understated stance is that of the Catholic church. The contribution of the Catholic church to the decline of Irish is one of the most bafflingly under reported stories of Irish history. Really, go check it out for yourself

* Fitzroy Presbyterian church in Belfast counts a number of Irish speakers among its congregation and has weekly services in Irish
http://www.fitzroy.org.uk/Groups/80951/Fitzroy_Presbyterian_Church/Get_Connected/Irish_Speakers/Irish_Speakers.aspx

* The motto of the 1892 Unionist Conference was ‘Erin Go Bragh’ – ‘Ireland forever’

* Irish regiments in the British army have used the motto "Faugh A Ballagh" - Clear the way

* The Irish culture centre in the Falls area is named after a Protestant Gaelic speaker - Robert Shipboy McAdam

http://alaninbelfast.blogspot.com.au/2012/06/culturlann-commemorates-history-of-its.html

http://www.culturlann.ie/culturlann.php?lang=en

* The last Prime Minister of Northern Ireland, Brian Faulkner (he who introduced internment) spoke Irish

* The almost extinct Antrim Gaelic is (according to Robert Shipboy McAdam) identical to some Scottish Gaelic dialects

* Former UVF leader, Gusty Spence, studied Gaelic in prison

* The motto of the terrorist group 'Red Hand Commando' has a Gaelic motto - "Lámh Dhearg Abú" -  'Red Hand to Victory'

* A lodge in the Orange Order had an attractive banner written in Gaelic

* It is thought that some (if not ALL) of the original 13 Apprentice Boys of Derry's famous siege spoke Gaelic. (Given the make up of the population back then it is highly unlikely that none of them had any understanding of Gaelic)


* The Gaelic League (ironically partly responsible for severing the Protestant involvement in Gaelic) in its early days attracted the head of the Independent Orange Order and a grand master of a Belfast Orange lodge.

So there you have it, a mere drop in the ocean of the Irish Protestant relationship with Gaelic.

It is unfortunate that it is now a political football and that unionists are so terrified of the language eating them up.

I would argue that they would have some control of it's direction and growth (e.g. increase the Scottish element of the Northern dialects?) if they got involved rather than backing off into the corner trying to hide from its inevitable growth.

I don't see how NOT getting involved achieves anything:

"We don't like the actions of the GAA!"

"Cool, so you're going to join and have a say in its affairs then?"

"No. We'll stand outside with a sign saying 'down with this sort of thing'...."

"How's that working for you so far?

Hardly the stuff of dynamic thinking. As usual.

Flegger Ted: Will bring the GAA to its knees...

Could some one, anyone please explain to me how Gaelic is a foreign language to Northern Ireland?

Especially when we take into consideration the Gaelic names of some of the unionist representatives:

McCrea, Allister, Cameron, Buchannan, Campbell, Craig, Dunlop, Dunne, Donnelly, Donaldson, Finlay, Givan, McCoubrey, McCartney, McCausland, McClure, McClurg, McCoy, McCrum, McCullough, McKeen, McCorkell,  McIlroy, McIlveen, McKee, McKnight, McQuillan, McWilliams,  Douglas, Herron, Kinahan, McGimpsey, Patterson (?) etc etc.

I just went through a list of unionist councilors and MLA's and found so many that I got bored, I'd be here all night writing them down...

Last and by no means least, there is another  unionist voice potentially of Gaelic origin:

Bryson

This interesting surname has two possible origins. 
The first is a patronymic from the male given name "Brice", i.e. "son of Brice".
 Brice is a pet form of the Welsh name "Rhys", meaning rashness; an ancient namebearer being King Rhyence of North Wales, whose hobby of collecting the beards of his rivals to trim his cloak proved his undoing when he attempted to complete his collection with King Arthur's.
 The name may also be an Anglicized form of the Gaelic "O Briosain", an altered version of "O'Muirgheasain" (Morrissey), meaning "son of Muirgheasain".
 In Ireland it originated in Ulster, particularly in Counties Donegal and Derry. The 17th Century Hearth Money Rolls for the Northern counties list many people with the name Mrieson and similar variants, later these became known as Morrison, Bryson is the modern form, and is commonly found recorded in the counties mentioned above.

Read more: http://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/Bryson#ixzz2oTjKFjBk

Three Flags; a Real Compromise?

compromise

ˈkɒmprəmʌɪz/

noun

noun: compromise; plural noun: compromises

1. 1.

   an agreement or settlement of a dispute that is reached by each side making concessions.

This is pretty much a rehash of an earlier blog, only without the ‘frilly bits’.

Those who have stumbled across my rants over on Sluggerotoole.com may well think me obsessed on the topic of flegs.

Though, to be fair, many people from NI are guilty of this too methinks.

Jamie and Willie: Like flegs

 

The hot potato of the year is of course the Union Flag flying (or not flying) from Belfast city hall.

After a year of reading the contributions, points and feelings of nationalist and republican commentators on Sluggerotoole, I have to say that I’ve come to see things differently than before.

I now (belatedly) accept their grievances about not feeling represented in their own city or land given that they have little or no affection for the Union Flag.

So, in the interests of keeping the peace, live & let live, equality and even letsgetalongerism I admit that this imbalance needs to be addressed.

“Equality, equality, equality “are the buzzwords of choice to galvanise arguments for addressing the matter.

I heartily agree.

As long as ‘equality’ isn’t something that can be surgically altered to fit a particular agenda.

I think everyone should be represented.

I also agree that we want the communities to have more respect for each other.

Which is why I can’t agree to the idea of flying the Tricolour and the Union Flag side by side.

It is too divisive.

Optimists may view it as progress, as a sign of two communities finally coming to terms with each other.

I view it as potentially toxic.

It says to me (and I’m a wishy washy middle of the road liberal) “CHOOSE!”.

 

There are those with the strength of character and integrity to see the very best aspects of this solution but there are many more who don’t.

And I’m not even talking about the likes of Willie Frazer or Jamie Bryson.

For decades we’ve seen these flags used as territorial markers.

For decades we’ve come to see the flags in terms of ‘themuns and oursuns’.

The hullaballoo surrounding last year’s flegger-geddon only compounded this.

Simply put, having the two flags flying alongside each other will simply be viewed as a constant declaration of “this one is for us lot and that one is for themuns”.

Hardly the stuff to heal wounds or allay suspicions and paranoia.

Also, it goes without saying that many unionists will view it as another ‘victory’ for Republicanism.

Which is why (predictably) I still stand by my proposal for flying three flags instead of one or two;              

 

1/ The Tricolour (for nationalists and republicans)

2/ The Union Flag (for 'bothered' unionists and 'British nationalists')

3/ A new Northern Ireland flag (for everyone who falls somewhere in between the two aforementioned poles)

I’ve aired this on Slugger a few times to test the water and whilst it hasn’t been taken into the bosom of many it has (more importantly) been neither convincingly mauled nor shot down, which, in slugger terms, I consider to be a victory.

There are many articulate people on there and I have been influenced by their arguments and points.

So for the notion to survive (or in one case actually be endorsed by a republican) is for me very encouraging.

The only attack on the proposal was an articulately dressed-up version of the ‘themuns have two flegs’ argument.

I acknowledged this potential argument when I proposed the scheme.

I also acknowledged that an equal amount of indignation would surface in the other camp at the very notion of a ‘foreign’ flag flying from city hall.

Sorry ladies and gents, but that’s compromise.

You might not particularly like the final result but you’re better off than before, in this particular case:   

 1/ Republicans and nationalists will have their flag flying and will thus be represented                                         

  2/ Unionists & British nationalists will have their flag flying (which is currently not the case in many nationalist council areas).

3/ Northern Irelanders, middle-of-the-roaders and such like will now have a flag to call their own and will be relieved at not being pigeonholed into either of the other two camps.

All sides advance.

All sides gain.

If you perceive your objective to be soured because ‘themuns’ have also got something out of the compromise then perhaps you should take stock of yourself and decide whether you really do want to live in proper peace or do you actually want peace only at the expense of others?

Having a third flag, a Northern Ireland flag, will potentially fill the void for those who aren’t particularly enthralled at the idea of either the Tricolour or Union Flag.

Growing apathy is an oft mentioned state of affairs in NI.

 

Many people just don’t have strong feelings of affection for the two main flags given how much they’ve been debased over the decades by hardliners on either side.

So to have such a binary choice available is rather a rather galling prospect for many people.

A new Northern Ireland flag will give them something to opt for (if they want to, keeping in mind the apathetic aspect mentioned before…)

Going back to the equality argument, it’s fair that the ‘British’ are represented, it’s fair that the ‘Irish’ are represented so surely it’s fair that the Northern Irish are represented too?

To use the argument of equality is to advocate this position by default.

They go hand in hand.

It cannot be simply used for the Tricolour and then immediately dumped because other people want to be represented too.

If one wishes to further the cause of equality then that opens the door to a Northern Ireland flag for those who find themselves somewhere in the middle of the opposing (?) Irish & British stances.

No ifs, no buts, if it’s in the name of equality then others have the right to be represented too, not just the two ‘main’ groups.

 

 

Equality: Has it's uses sometimes...

 

 

A new Northern Ireland flag may be unpalatable to some nationalists (and many unionists!) but ditto the Tricolour with unionists.                                                                                                                                                                                                           Also, this distaste for a NI flag is of secondary consideration to the primary objectives of equality and flying the tricolour.

 

These objectives have been stated too many times for any fickle back-peddling:

“Sinn Féin wants to see a City Hall that is inclusive and welcoming to every citizen and every tradition"

If we want equality then it must be real equality, not another demarcation point to further divide people.

Three groups, three flags.

Not a great deal to ask.

 

 

 

AFTERTHOUGHT:

The thought occurs that in order to get around this pesky inconvenience there will undoubtedly be an attempt to move the goalposts .                

                                                                                                                                                                                 I’d be curious to see which tactic will be employed, will it be redefine ‘equality’ or deny the existence of the ‘Northern Irish’ or even playing with statistics.

 

 

If the idea ever gains traction it’ll be interesting to see what angle the naysayers will take. Watch this space folks.